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Verse 1: I thought this was a battle The kind that’s won or lost Where raging at the rival Brings a victory worth all costs
But the prize is alienation Now that seems a hollow win Standing lonely in the ruins Of the war I fought within
Verse 2: I thought this was a battle With troops on high alert Couldn’t trace the friendly fire From the part of me that hurt
Oh, the rage destroys your allies In the same flames as your foes Your own weapon takes you over No matter how it goes
Verse 3: I thought this was a battle I could win and earn my peace Then I saw myself in terror As hostilities increased
And the anger gave an order Show no mercy in this fight I asked myself the question Could this order not be right
Bridge: It can take all that you got To disobey an order that’s all wrong To take the heat for seeming weak That’s a different kind of strong
When the rage calls loved ones enemies And declares we’re at code red And orders me to take them down I’ll lift them up instead
Verse 4: I thought this was a battle Now I’m learning it’s much more It’s a mission to compassion For the pain down in my core
It’s a journey toward forgiveness When the rage has had its say And the wisdom we discover We can’t fight these things away But we can live to love another day
Ok I will put the lyrics in the page. As I listened I was trying to surmise the dynamics. As it looks, there is no chorus, and only the bridge is elevated (dynamics). Ideas on the approach for the dynamics, from the drummer point of view? I have invited Ernie.
Dynamic structure of the song: Intro and Verse 1 - just piano and voice. Verse 2 (with pickup) - drums & bass enter. Drums are soft, on sidesticks Verse 3 - Drums still on sidesticks but can add another subtle element to gradually build Bridge (with pickup) - full intensity - full snare hits for drums. Bass can get a little busier here Verse 4 - intensity falls off from bridge - drums probably back to side sticks. Outro - Drum beat drops out, but you can experiment with little accents on cymbals - maybe a soft cymbal roll on the end. Bass can play a minimalistic part on outro and I can decide during mixing whether to use.
Thanks Fred for working on this! Your percussion part in verse 3 gave me an idea - instead of Latin percussion, what if the embellishment were more like a military march?
Those embellishments were an overdub over the base drumbeat, right? If so, can I have them in a separate track so I can mix them independently of the base drum tracks?
Another thought - at the end where the tempo slows down on the last 3 notes - instead of suggesting a syncopation "in-time", can you help sell the slowdown but just hitting ride cymbals with my last 3 piano chords, with no accents around them?
Thanks again, man! It's exciting to hear this come together. - J
I am a little confused about the ending. As it is there are no accents except the open hyhat and ride bell on the last hit. Maybe I can up the drums and you can replace what you want on the end? I am considering the last hit to be separate from the others. Up until the open hyhat accent it is the beat, so I am a little lost on this. Should be easy for you to do the ride on the end there since I am not seeing how this will work. I guess you'd remove the open hyhat accent and replace it with a ride?
Great - that march totally works in the song! And you're going toward the right direction with the ending. From what I'm hearing, I'd like the beat to end on my last lyric - the word "Day" of "Live to love another day." At that point, I'm just looking for little kick/ride hits with some piano chords. I'll post a chart of just the ending to show you where I'd like to hear those little hits.
Not sure charts help. I play by ear. You might make reference with lyrics as to where, or click times. I have one other thing I want to put in on the march. Will demo shortly. So I will go ahead and add myself to the roster for drums, and we can work the fine points out. Cool.
I see the new demo you uploaded. I will address these things you have spoken of here shortly. Added buzz roll (push) to march snare. Also changed the kick to quater notes for that verse. In the file.
Ok I had a listen to your demo. So it sounds like in my mix the beat goes on too long. Where you are accenting with the foot, I have it hitting a sidestick. That's easy enough. Sounds like I am accenting with the open hyhat, where you want it straight. The piano does imply accent but I can make it straight.
I really like those march drums! For the ending, I hear in my head the beat dropping out with the final "Live to love another day" and then it stays out the rest of the song - with just those ride taps to go with the piano chords as you hear it on the clip I posted.
...and that's a keeper, Keeper! Thank you! Please upload the stems and I'll add more tracks! I have my bass guitar back, so I think I'm gonna take a whack at the bass.
I'm cutting bass tracks for another song tonight, it wouldn't take much for me to make a run at this one while I'm at it. So I think I'm good with your drum stems. I'll post a rough mix; if we think my bass track doesn't serve the song we can bring in the big guns!
Remember how I did this drum track Jason. Part of this will be a drum loop, part of it will indeed be broken up into stems. To get full stems I will need to actually play what is on this drum mix, with the v-drum kit, at which point I will have all of the stems. I am planning to shoot video in the same sessions. I will send what I have, but I wanted to refresh your memory about HOW I am doing this.
Ok - now I understand. I thought what you uploaded was a rough mix with you playing vdrums. Mind blown. 😮 Looking forward to the vdrums version and the video then!
When I do the v-drums, it will produce MIDI that you can plug your fav drumkit into. I am sure you could use Logic to render what I play with your drumkit of choice.
Ok the stereo drum mix wav file is up. You can use this to work against until I get the "performed" rendering of what we here here. First thing I gotta do is find a kit that has sidestick and full snare too. Shouldn't be too hard to find. I'll keep you advised.
I started out doing the writing with a MIDI kit, which would have rendered the full stems for the kit, but I was having to learn it as I went so it was pretty slow. I switched over to loops, which I am much faster with, but it doesn't supply the stems like we need. It should be pretty easy to practice what has been written and then hit record both for video and MIDI as I play with sticks. Should give you plenty to work with for production.
I've been prepping for this type of work for awhile Jason. I have Superior Drummer 3 setup and I've done some testing of both audio and video, to be used for this type of production. This is the type of video and audio you should end up with. You'll be able to both mix the stems, and sync it with video. That's the goal anyhow: Right click and open in new window ����LINK
Ok there is a tiny midi file in the files are. I did some setup. Put new batteries in the camera, got all the mounting setup, setup a project, and figured out how to insert a sidestick instead of snare. Will try a little sync just to see it work.. So far so good.
Downloaded the MIDI and imported into Logic for testing. All good except for one little quirk: the side stick hits came out as snare hits - no problem; just dragged them onto the side stick note in the piano roll and then all good.
I am sure I explained that in email. I had to transpose it too. It's because I am new to superior drummer. Did you notice the snare is made up of two different snare tracks? THAT is because of articulation. Problem is, you have to transpose BOTH of those snare tracks to be sidestick. THAT was just a test anyhow. I am going to try the same thing with ezdrummer, because I know I can find a sidestick in it. I spent several hours setting up yesterday. Finding hardware to mount the camera, replacing batteries, configuring the v-drums, and some time trying to find a sidestick in superior drummer. I think I might need to have another trigger pad specifically for sidestick. It's getting there. Yes i had to transpose the snare to be sidestick too. Gonna try a different approach.
I am putting EZ Drummer 2 on the machine the kit is connected to. The drum assignments should work better, to match up with what you are using. I am also going to connect another trigger pad specifically for sidestick, so I should have everything I need to play the entire piece all the way through without needing to substitute and sounds. Working on that right now.
There is a march .mid file for you to listen to Jason. This is me practicing I guess. Some of it is pretty sloppy. I need to practice more. Both v-drums, and acoustic. Nice looking and sounding kit I saw you behind!
And I just added a full beat .mid file. It's sloppy, but I just want to have a listen and maybe try putting what I have so far together. My aim is to play it all the way through and shoot video before the end of the day. I have some things to work with. I am hoping that if I fix a place or two this is usable, but I plan full track attempts soon. I just found out I have to replace the batteries often to get good results. About 5 takes shot before I did that.
There is a place in the full_beat.mid where the snare drops out. I heard/felt it drop out as I was playing, but I just kept playing. You can see on the video that I just kept playing through the drop until it came back. So I am thinking I can edit in the places where it glitched to follow the video and it could be usable. All of this is even less important is you are going to just have video every once in awhile against your vox/piano video. I plan to be able to send both video and midi o f the entire song, synced with clicks. I am not sure just yet, but I think I have enough for the whole thing with editing. I am going to beging working video and midi together to sync. I am still planning to work the entire track from where I come in and shoot video as i do it. I am going to just go to rehearsing the whole thing and have it in my head that I can hit record anytime it starts feeling like I get through the whole thing. I have these transition counts down now. Still I have parts saved just in case. Fingers crossed. There is something to be said about playing often and just practicing, and getting more confident. That's my goal. Listening and learning.
I've been using markers in my DAW to help me remember where to begin counting on the transistions. As I record I have a cowbell metronome in the monitor to help me ground my timing. THAT is a biggie on the acoustic kit Jason. A cowbell in the kans is good contrast to the kit. Helps ground rolls etc. You should be able to get a cowbell metronome in Logic. You can set it so you can hear it well as you play the kit. It's a good idea to have that always going as you practice. We will never be perfect time keepers but we should aspire to be. I've always embraced a click track. it makes it obvious when practice is needed to help temper timing. Mostly rolls. Have cowbell in the kans and not recorded. I always have a cowbell when I play and record.
I THINK I have the build up done now. I will go ahead and complete the video and then go to work on assembling the MIDI to follow it, at which point I think I am ready to send it to you. Fingers crossed: 🤞
OK - don't stress over the video too much. No one shot is going to be on continuous display anyway - I cut between shots as I did with "Because I'm Grateful" I'm happy to get whatever video you're able to send. If you have to punch in on parts and there's no video for those parts, I can totally work with that. - J
Well I am learning as we go along. I have something rendering right now. It has the click at the front to help sync. You'll be able to assemble things for now, and I will continue with the MIDI. I am working to a grid so I should have no real problem with that. Maybe half an hr, I should have a link for you.
The video is right on the money. The MIDI file that's uploaded does not match the video though. There's a measure of march then silence then the heavy bridge part. If we can't get a midi upload to work, can you render the drums as a single audio track? I can make that work. Thanks - Jason
Yes I am planning to make the MIDI follow the video. You gotta figure that the MIDI was done at the same time as the video, and I made the video follow the written drum track, I should then be able to make the video and the MIDI match. You have enough to get working on this though. When the MIDI is finished it should sync for you too. Go ahead with your video editing with what I sent, and I will be working on the MIDI in the meantime. It will be telling how the resolution of YOUR work comes out. I say this because MY part in this will be 2nd generation in your saved version, so I am wondering if it gets grainy in your save. These are things we are learning as we go along. I can jump up the video res if it suffers on 2nd generation.
I mean you liked the drums in the programmed track, so make a version with that and we'll be planning a version with the MIDI too where you have control of the drum mix. I am up for that. Just working my way to it. Lots of problem solving and developing of routines etc, so it takes some time.
OK, not rushing you - I think I'm misunderstanding the purpose of the new MIDI files you're posting to the uploads and not wanting to leave you hanging when you've taken the time to submit something for me to hear - and letting you know that the MIDI is, for some reason, not what you played in the video. I hope this helps you troubelshoot. I just don't want you killing yourself spending time on something that's too complicated to work. I've got plenty in my hopper to work on, so I don't want you to feel any pressure on this.
Ah but it is what I played on the video. That's the point! I edited the video to follow the programmed drums. It's obvious on the video I did this in several sessions, so I edited the video (which was done at the same time as the MIDI). The video was made at the same time as the MIDI. How can it not be the same. The video was edited to follow, and so will the midi. What you have to understand is that I have been gearing up for this for quite some time. I would be doing this on my own even if I was not doing it with your project. Part of the reason it takes so long is that I do take frequent breaks to keep the fatigue down. I could do the acoustic kit and room mics like you are doing all day. It's good, but the sound quality is not like it should be IMHO. I go slow because I think about things quite a bit. I know you have a gazillion ideas and projects, so just work on others while you are waiting on me. I think it's already paying off. You have a version there that you could put in place in the meantime. You gotta remember, I am doing what I am doing, because I love it. Have for decades. It's a lot of work no matter what but I do take frequent breaks. Just be patient. I've had what I am doing planned for quite awhile. You might think I'm struggling, but I'm not. I like to take my time. You've seen results already. Just gotta trust that i know what I'm doing. I think it's advisable for everyone to take their time. If for no other reason than to keep your mind fresh. Fatigue is our enemy and I know that.
Jason, I would be happy if you used the programmed drums. You said you liked them. The purpose of the MIDI is to give you control. Something I want to get a handle on anyhow. We never will get better at it if we don't work it. You wanted to mix stems. MIDI is the tool that will give you this control. so you could use that video I sent in your final and I'd be happy. It does sound good. I agree with that. The MIDI is for you. You want to be able to mix the stems. This is something that will get requested quite a bit so I might as well develop my routines. I really feel like you could do both. You can use what I've sent you in a final version. One of two. The other final version will involve the MIDi and stems, produced from the logic kit of your choice. There is more in mind than just this project. I am learning routines that will be used in future productions too. Hopefully streamlined. being a drummer as well, you might want to learn some of this too. I hope to be able to send you the full synced MIDI today or maybe tomorrow. Depends on how organized I am. You can count on the full MIDI but I think you should proceed on ONE of the final versions now as well. If for no other reason, than to know the difference yourself, and practicality.
That's it Fred! You nailed it! Your part is now in my Logic project and working out really well. Thank you for your hard work to make this happen. By tonight I'll have bass and synth pads added.
If you made the rest of the kit as easy to hear as the sidestick I think you'd have it. Otherwise I like it. Seems like I can hear the march buzz snare ok too. In general the rest of the kit is hard to pick out in that mix.
So yeah I am hearing mostly sidestick and march snare. Cymbals non existant. Toms non existant. Kick needs to punctuate the bass more. Basically match the rest of the kit in level to sidestick and march snare levels. Most of the kit is not heard at all.
Well don't take it personally Jason. Hopefully what I said to you makes sense, and if it is the same thing you're already thinking then it just reinforces it. The thing to remember is that it is possible to be too close to a mix, and thus hard to be objective. If it is possible to have a person who didn't perform (and whom you trust) doing the mix it is better, because they have the ultimate in objectivity. We don't really have that luxury, so it helps to get critiques. You may not agree with what is said and you have that right, but then again, you might agree with what I've said. If you are already thinking what I say it is constructive too and lets you know you are on the right path. So, what I can do, which is very cool to have, is I will put new mixes in a new player at the top of the page so you can compare between your mixes quickly. It should go far to help you contrast from one mix to another. You should quickly hear the differences from mix to mix that you are after.
You will end up with multiple players up there, and you should be able to track your progress, and hear the mix develop. In the end you can compare your first mix with the last and know you've come close to your goal. You should be able to stop one player and immediately jump to the other and hear the differences IMMEDIATELY. It is a sort of A/B switch. Before and after except that it is multiple players up there to compare.
OK; I'll see if I can isolate the hat and bring it up a bit. Was listening to Billy Joel's "Goodnight Saigon" for reference this morning. I'm not sure if I can download video direct from YouTube to a Mac without 3rd party software. Can you upload the video file to this project? Thanks!
Remember the hat has two parts as MIDI. Closed, and open. When working with MIDI kit, you treat velocity the same as volume. Can't use the volume parameter, because that controls the volume of channel 10 (whole kit). To address individual parts of the kit, use the velocity parameter. I will split that kit up, and re-upload the video. I had it up hee and I thought you got it. My bad.
I just uploaded the drum track as MIDI, where the parts of the kit are split up. I didn't lable them, because you should be able to route them to the Logic kit and know what they are by sound. If you need them actually labled by kit part, let me know. I see your new mix. Will listen.
I really like this. Paste in your lyrics please!
ReplyDeleteLyrics:
ReplyDeleteVerse 1:
I thought this was a battle
The kind that’s won or lost
Where raging at the rival
Brings a victory worth all costs
But the prize is alienation
Now that seems a hollow win
Standing lonely in the ruins
Of the war I fought within
Verse 2:
I thought this was a battle
With troops on high alert
Couldn’t trace the friendly fire
From the part of me that hurt
Oh, the rage destroys your allies
In the same flames as your foes
Your own weapon takes you over
No matter how it goes
Verse 3:
I thought this was a battle
I could win and earn my peace
Then I saw myself in terror
As hostilities increased
And the anger gave an order
Show no mercy in this fight
I asked myself the question
Could this order not be right
Bridge:
It can take all that you got
To disobey an order that’s all wrong
To take the heat for seeming weak
That’s a different kind of strong
When the rage calls loved ones enemies
And declares we’re at code red
And orders me to take them down
I’ll lift them up instead
Verse 4:
I thought this was a battle
Now I’m learning it’s much more
It’s a mission to compassion
For the pain down in my core
It’s a journey toward forgiveness
When the rage has had its say
And the wisdom we discover
We can’t fight these things away
But we can live to love another day
Ok I will put the lyrics in the page. As I listened I was trying to surmise the dynamics. As it looks, there is no chorus, and only the bridge is elevated (dynamics). Ideas on the approach for the dynamics, from the drummer point of view? I have invited Ernie.
DeleteDynamic structure of the song: Intro and Verse 1 - just piano and voice.
ReplyDeleteVerse 2 (with pickup) - drums & bass enter. Drums are soft, on sidesticks
Verse 3 - Drums still on sidesticks but can add another subtle element to gradually build
Bridge (with pickup) - full intensity - full snare hits for drums. Bass can get a little busier here
Verse 4 - intensity falls off from bridge - drums probably back to side sticks.
Outro - Drum beat drops out, but you can experiment with little accents on cymbals - maybe a soft cymbal roll on the end. Bass can play a minimalistic part on outro and I can decide during mixing whether to use.
Thanks fellas.
That's how I had it in my head. Thanks for clarification.
Delete1st draft in the files Jason. Let me know.
ReplyDeleteI gotta add a few more tom rolls.
ReplyDeleteActually I am going to rethink v3.
ReplyDeleteI took the first try down. Uploaded a new v3 take so see if you like it. In the files.
DeleteThanks Fred for working on this! Your percussion part in verse 3 gave me an idea - instead of Latin percussion, what if the embellishment were more like a military march?
ReplyDeleteThose embellishments were an overdub over the base drumbeat, right? If so, can I have them in a separate track so I can mix them independently of the base drum tracks?
Another thought - at the end where the tempo slows down on the last 3 notes - instead of suggesting a syncopation "in-time", can you help sell the slowdown but just hitting ride cymbals with my last 3 piano chords, with no accents around them?
Thanks again, man! It's exciting to hear this come together. - J
What if I just remove the congas? I will try what you've written.
DeleteOK, thanks Fred - it'll be good to have the comparison without the congas. - J
ReplyDeleteMight feel less latin and more military without congas. If that doesn't do it we'll look for march.
DeleteI am a little confused about the ending. As it is there are no accents except the open hyhat and ride bell on the last hit. Maybe I can up the drums and you can replace what you want on the end? I am considering the last hit to be separate from the others. Up until the open hyhat accent it is the beat, so I am a little lost on this. Should be easy for you to do the ride on the end there since I am not seeing how this will work. I guess you'd remove the open hyhat accent and replace it with a ride?
ReplyDeleteOk I just upped a mix without congas. If we need to look for more march, can do.
ReplyDeleteI went ahead and did a march snare. Have a listen in the files. This one is def more military. I have yet another idea to put in for march.
ReplyDeleteGreat - that march totally works in the song! And you're going toward the right direction with the ending. From what I'm hearing, I'd like the beat to end on my last lyric - the word "Day" of "Live to love another day." At that point, I'm just looking for little kick/ride hits with some piano chords. I'll post a chart of just the ending to show you where I'd like to hear those little hits.
ReplyDeleteNot sure charts help. I play by ear. You might make reference with lyrics as to where, or click times. I have one other thing I want to put in on the march. Will demo shortly. So I will go ahead and add myself to the roster for drums, and we can work the fine points out. Cool.
Deleteclock times.
DeleteI see the new demo you uploaded. I will address these things you have spoken of here shortly. Added buzz roll (push) to march snare. Also changed the kick to quater notes for that verse. In the file.
ReplyDeleteOk I had a listen to your demo. So it sounds like in my mix the beat goes on too long. Where you are accenting with the foot, I have it hitting a sidestick. That's easy enough. Sounds like I am accenting with the open hyhat, where you want it straight. The piano does imply accent but I can make it straight.
ReplyDeleteI really like those march drums! For the ending, I hear in my head the beat dropping out with the final "Live to love another day" and then it stays out the rest of the song - with just those ride taps to go with the piano chords as you hear it on the clip I posted.
ReplyDeleteHope this helps, -- Jaosn
I think it does yes. I'll give it a try. 😎
DeleteFile uploaded. Check file area.
ReplyDelete...and that's a keeper, Keeper! Thank you! Please upload the stems and I'll add more tracks! I have my bass guitar back, so I think I'm gonna take a whack at the bass.
ReplyDeleteIf you want I can ask Tony W. to try a bassline. Let me know.
DeleteI'm cutting bass tracks for another song tonight, it wouldn't take much for me to make a run at this one while I'm at it. So I think I'm good with your drum stems. I'll post a rough mix; if we think my bass track doesn't serve the song we can bring in the big guns!
ReplyDeleteRemember how I did this drum track Jason. Part of this will be a drum loop, part of it will indeed be broken up into stems. To get full stems I will need to actually play what is on this drum mix, with the v-drum kit, at which point I will have all of the stems. I am planning to shoot video in the same sessions. I will send what I have, but I wanted to refresh your memory about HOW I am doing this.
DeleteI am prepared to do the next step in this. The part is written, now I'd need to perform it, which I am prepared to do.
DeleteOk - now I understand. I thought what you uploaded was a rough mix with you playing vdrums. Mind blown. 😮 Looking forward to the vdrums version and the video then!
ReplyDeleteI will send up this drum mix alone in the meantime.
DeleteWhen I do the v-drums, it will produce MIDI that you can plug your fav drumkit into. I am sure you could use Logic to render what I play with your drumkit of choice.
ReplyDeleteOk the stereo drum mix wav file is up. You can use this to work against until I get the "performed" rendering of what we here here. First thing I gotta do is find a kit that has sidestick and full snare too. Shouldn't be too hard to find. I'll keep you advised.
ReplyDeleteI started out doing the writing with a MIDI kit, which would have rendered the full stems for the kit, but I was having to learn it as I went so it was pretty slow. I switched over to loops, which I am much faster with, but it doesn't supply the stems like we need. It should be pretty easy to practice what has been written and then hit record both for video and MIDI as I play with sticks. Should give you plenty to work with for production.
ReplyDeleteI've been prepping for this type of work for awhile Jason. I have Superior Drummer 3 setup and I've done some testing of both audio and video, to be used for this type of production. This is the type of video and audio you should end up with. You'll be able to both mix the stems, and sync it with video. That's the goal anyhow: Right click and open in new window ����LINK
ReplyDeleteLatest Mix updated at the top of the page.
ReplyDeleteOk there is a tiny midi file in the files are. I did some setup. Put new batteries in the camera, got all the mounting setup, setup a project, and figured out how to insert a sidestick instead of snare. Will try a little sync just to see it work.. So far so good.
ReplyDeleteDownloaded the MIDI and imported into Logic for testing. All good except for one little quirk: the side stick hits came out as snare hits - no problem; just dragged them onto the side stick note in the piano roll and then all good.
ReplyDeleteI am sure I explained that in email. I had to transpose it too. It's because I am new to superior drummer. Did you notice the snare is made up of two different snare tracks? THAT is because of articulation. Problem is, you have to transpose BOTH of those snare tracks to be sidestick. THAT was just a test anyhow. I am going to try the same thing with ezdrummer, because I know I can find a sidestick in it. I spent several hours setting up yesterday. Finding hardware to mount the camera, replacing batteries, configuring the v-drums, and some time trying to find a sidestick in superior drummer. I think I might need to have another trigger pad specifically for sidestick. It's getting there. Yes i had to transpose the snare to be sidestick too. Gonna try a different approach.
DeleteI am putting EZ Drummer 2 on the machine the kit is connected to. The drum assignments should work better, to match up with what you are using. I am also going to connect another trigger pad specifically for sidestick, so I should have everything I need to play the entire piece all the way through without needing to substitute and sounds. Working on that right now.
ReplyDeleteThere is a march .mid file for you to listen to Jason. This is me practicing I guess. Some of it is pretty sloppy. I need to practice more. Both v-drums, and acoustic. Nice looking and sounding kit I saw you behind!
ReplyDeleteAnd I just added a full beat .mid file. It's sloppy, but I just want to have a listen and maybe try putting what I have so far together. My aim is to play it all the way through and shoot video before the end of the day. I have some things to work with. I am hoping that if I fix a place or two this is usable, but I plan full track attempts soon. I just found out I have to replace the batteries often to get good results. About 5 takes shot before I did that.
ReplyDeleteThere is a place in the full_beat.mid where the snare drops out. I heard/felt it drop out as I was playing, but I just kept playing. You can see on the video that I just kept playing through the drop until it came back. So I am thinking I can edit in the places where it glitched to follow the video and it could be usable. All of this is even less important is you are going to just have video every once in awhile against your vox/piano video. I plan to be able to send both video and midi o f the entire song, synced with clicks. I am not sure just yet, but I think I have enough for the whole thing with editing. I am going to beging working video and midi together to sync. I am still planning to work the entire track from where I come in and shoot video as i do it. I am going to just go to rehearsing the whole thing and have it in my head that I can hit record anytime it starts feeling like I get through the whole thing. I have these transition counts down now. Still I have parts saved just in case. Fingers crossed. There is something to be said about playing often and just practicing, and getting more confident. That's my goal. Listening and learning.
ReplyDeleteI've been using markers in my DAW to help me remember where to begin counting on the transistions. As I record I have a cowbell metronome in the monitor to help me ground my timing. THAT is a biggie on the acoustic kit Jason. A cowbell in the kans is good contrast to the kit. Helps ground rolls etc. You should be able to get a cowbell metronome in Logic. You can set it so you can hear it well as you play the kit. It's a good idea to have that always going as you practice. We will never be perfect time keepers but we should aspire to be. I've always embraced a click track. it makes it obvious when practice is needed to help temper timing. Mostly rolls. Have cowbell in the kans and not recorded. I always have a cowbell when I play and record.
ReplyDeleteI THINK I have the build up done now. I will go ahead and complete the video and then go to work on assembling the MIDI to follow it, at which point I think I am ready to send it to you. Fingers crossed: 🤞
ReplyDeleteOK - don't stress over the video too much. No one shot is going to be on continuous display anyway - I cut between shots as I did with "Because I'm Grateful" I'm happy to get whatever video you're able to send. If you have to punch in on parts and there's no video for those parts, I can totally work with that. - J
ReplyDeleteWell I am learning as we go along. I have something rendering right now. It has the click at the front to help sync. You'll be able to assemble things for now, and I will continue with the MIDI. I am working to a grid so I should have no real problem with that. Maybe half an hr, I should have a link for you.
DeleteHere is the link. Use the down arrow in upper right to download: You might have to right click and open in new tab. https://drive.google.com/file/d/11pWlapDV70W9EB_nGXfM9YmTKWZMydXV/view?usp=sharing
ReplyDeleteThe video is right on the money. The MIDI file that's uploaded does not match the video though. There's a measure of march then silence then the heavy bridge part. If we can't get a midi upload to work, can you render the drums as a single audio track? I can make that work. Thanks - Jason
ReplyDeleteYes I am planning to make the MIDI follow the video. You gotta figure that the MIDI was done at the same time as the video, and I made the video follow the written drum track, I should then be able to make the video and the MIDI match. You have enough to get working on this though. When the MIDI is finished it should sync for you too. Go ahead with your video editing with what I sent, and I will be working on the MIDI in the meantime. It will be telling how the resolution of YOUR work comes out. I say this because MY part in this will be 2nd generation in your saved version, so I am wondering if it gets grainy in your save. These are things we are learning as we go along. I can jump up the video res if it suffers on 2nd generation.
ReplyDeleteI mean you liked the drums in the programmed track, so make a version with that and we'll be planning a version with the MIDI too where you have control of the drum mix. I am up for that. Just working my way to it. Lots of problem solving and developing of routines etc, so it takes some time.
ReplyDeleteOK, not rushing you - I think I'm misunderstanding the purpose of the new MIDI files you're posting to the uploads and not wanting to leave you hanging when you've taken the time to submit something for me to hear - and letting you know that the MIDI is, for some reason, not what you played in the video. I hope this helps you troubelshoot. I just don't want you killing yourself spending time on something that's too complicated to work. I've got plenty in my hopper to work on, so I don't want you to feel any pressure on this.
ReplyDeleteAh but it is what I played on the video. That's the point! I edited the video to follow the programmed drums. It's obvious on the video I did this in several sessions, so I edited the video (which was done at the same time as the MIDI). The video was made at the same time as the MIDI. How can it not be the same. The video was edited to follow, and so will the midi. What you have to understand is that I have been gearing up for this for quite some time. I would be doing this on my own even if I was not doing it with your project. Part of the reason it takes so long is that I do take frequent breaks to keep the fatigue down. I could do the acoustic kit and room mics like you are doing all day. It's good, but the sound quality is not like it should be IMHO. I go slow because I think about things quite a bit. I know you have a gazillion ideas and projects, so just work on others while you are waiting on me. I think it's already paying off. You have a version there that you could put in place in the meantime. You gotta remember, I am doing what I am doing, because I love it. Have for decades. It's a lot of work no matter what but I do take frequent breaks. Just be patient. I've had what I am doing planned for quite awhile. You might think I'm struggling, but I'm not. I like to take my time. You've seen results already. Just gotta trust that i know what I'm doing. I think it's advisable for everyone to take their time. If for no other reason than to keep your mind fresh. Fatigue is our enemy and I know that.
DeleteJason, I would be happy if you used the programmed drums. You said you liked them. The purpose of the MIDI is to give you control. Something I want to get a handle on anyhow. We never will get better at it if we don't work it. You wanted to mix stems. MIDI is the tool that will give you this control. so you could use that video I sent in your final and I'd be happy. It does sound good. I agree with that. The MIDI is for you. You want to be able to mix the stems. This is something that will get requested quite a bit so I might as well develop my routines. I really feel like you could do both. You can use what I've sent you in a final version. One of two. The other final version will involve the MIDi and stems, produced from the logic kit of your choice. There is more in mind than just this project. I am learning routines that will be used in future productions too. Hopefully streamlined. being a drummer as well, you might want to learn some of this too. I hope to be able to send you the full synced MIDI today or maybe tomorrow. Depends on how organized I am. You can count on the full MIDI but I think you should proceed on ONE of the final versions now as well. If for no other reason, than to know the difference yourself, and practicality.
ReplyDeleteOk I have the full MIDI file posted in the files area. I am calling it drums 1 because we might need to change some. Let me know.
ReplyDeleteThat's it Fred! You nailed it! Your part is now in my Logic project and working out really well. Thank you for your hard work to make this happen. By tonight I'll have bass and synth pads added.
ReplyDeleteWe've been working to a grid from the beginning, so it should sync with the video etc. Cool! Looking forward!
DeleteListening now! I like it. I think the kick needs a little more snap, or to come up just a little. Lacks kick punctuation.
ReplyDeleteI hear the sidestick well in the mix but the rest of the kit seems burried.
ReplyDeleteIf you made the rest of the kit as easy to hear as the sidestick I think you'd have it. Otherwise I like it. Seems like I can hear the march buzz snare ok too. In general the rest of the kit is hard to pick out in that mix.
ReplyDeleteI like that you have the vox on top. Bass sounds really good!
ReplyDeleteThe cymbals in the mix are almost non existent.
ReplyDeleteThe ride is a time keeper in the transitions, and is invisible. Cymbals in general are non existent.
ReplyDeleteThe cymbals don't seem to exist at all in this mix.
ReplyDeleteThe march idea really works well. Good call on that.
ReplyDeleteSo yeah I am hearing mostly sidestick and march snare. Cymbals non existant. Toms non existant. Kick needs to punctuate the bass more. Basically match the rest of the kit in level to sidestick and march snare levels. Most of the kit is not heard at all.
ReplyDeleteExtremely rough mix at the end of a tracking session. Take it with a huge grain of salt. Definitely want to punch up the drums.
ReplyDeleteWell don't take it personally Jason. Hopefully what I said to you makes sense, and if it is the same thing you're already thinking then it just reinforces it. The thing to remember is that it is possible to be too close to a mix, and thus hard to be objective. If it is possible to have a person who didn't perform (and whom you trust) doing the mix it is better, because they have the ultimate in objectivity. We don't really have that luxury, so it helps to get critiques. You may not agree with what is said and you have that right, but then again, you might agree with what I've said. If you are already thinking what I say it is constructive too and lets you know you are on the right path. So, what I can do, which is very cool to have, is I will put new mixes in a new player at the top of the page so you can compare between your mixes quickly. It should go far to help you contrast from one mix to another. You should quickly hear the differences from mix to mix that you are after.
DeleteYou will end up with multiple players up there, and you should be able to track your progress, and hear the mix develop. In the end you can compare your first mix with the last and know you've come close to your goal. You should be able to stop one player and immediately jump to the other and hear the differences IMMEDIATELY. It is a sort of A/B switch. Before and after except that it is multiple players up there to compare.
ReplyDeleteMuch better Jason. On this mix the one thing I could not hear is the hyhat on the sidestick section. Much better overall and it's gelling!
ReplyDeleteOK; I'll see if I can isolate the hat and bring it up a bit. Was listening to Billy Joel's "Goodnight Saigon" for reference this morning. I'm not sure if I can download video direct from YouTube to a Mac without 3rd party software. Can you upload the video file to this project? Thanks!
ReplyDeleteRemember the hat has two parts as MIDI. Closed, and open. When working with MIDI kit, you treat velocity the same as volume. Can't use the volume parameter, because that controls the volume of channel 10 (whole kit). To address individual parts of the kit, use the velocity parameter. I will split that kit up, and re-upload the video. I had it up hee and I thought you got it. My bad.
ReplyDeleteOk I re-uploaded the complete video track again. sorry i took it down. I thought you had it already.
ReplyDeleteI just uploaded the drum track as MIDI, where the parts of the kit are split up. I didn't lable them, because you should be able to route them to the Logic kit and know what they are by sound. If you need them actually labled by kit part, let me know. I see your new mix. Will listen.
ReplyDeleteAre you using reference monitors as you mix Jason?
ReplyDeleteYes - I'm using reference monitors when I mix. I definitely hear more hat in verse 2 & 4 this go-round.
ReplyDeleteYes I hear it as well! I like it! Excellent work.
DeleteGetting the video! Thanks!
ReplyDelete