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Good job Neil! This system makes it very easy to look back at things we've talked about. If you upload something just tell us to look in the files area and we can see the new files.
Neil does Joe have a google account? It is possible he uses that email to login to google. If we get him in here like we are, we will be able to discuss things as a group. I have my iMAC turned on. Going to work on those drums a little.
So Neil, Joes is here with us and is all set to you. He's getting notifications from these comments, and has successfully done a few test uploads. You will see his files in the files area, and you can even click them open and hear them. Whe one of us comments here the other two will see it in their gmail. You should try an upload just to see it work.
Neil, I am MUCH faster with the apps I use on windoze. I put a screen capture in the project page here just above the comments. Can't miss it. So I numbered the arrows for reference. So I opened and empty project, and then opened a session for drummer. It put the SoCal kit on a track (arrow 1 in capture). That much worked. When I imported the split midi file it did import them but it is not assigned to the SoCal kit on track one. They all seem to be assigned to a Steinway piano (arrow 2 in capture). How to I make these tracks trigger the drum kit?
I had to make the Library visible in the menu, but once I did, I quickly found the SoCal kit and asigned it immediately. Very helpful Neil! We're getting somewhere now. For now I am using the iMAC speakers but I am planning to connect a focusrite interface and Presonus Monitors. Hope I am not too much at a disadvantage with these speakers. I have found the iMAC speakers are pretty damned good, but they are not reference monitors. Getting there. Thanks for the help. We help each other.
Ok I will give that a try Neil. I was able to set the kick track to the drum designer, but I didn't see the SoCal kit available in drum Designer. I was looking for producer kits so I could choose SoCal. I will follow your instructions. I have recorded the SoCal kit with the triggers. This is a little different to asign for an imported midi track. Will give that a try. I saved what I did but I like the SoCal kit too. I do think that kit has crash cymbals that are a little too loud by default. I usually want to lower them in the mix using velocity. Thanks Neil.
I rekon the basics are the same in most DAWs. It's just a matter of finding it on the menus. I have some video tutorials and the manuals but I think it's a matter of wording for searches. If I don't get the exact keyword, my search goes to the wrong places.
That's really all that matters. I am thinking about the hyhats. Remember I mentioned that they piece together different degrees of closed and open hyhats? I think they piece it together and it is treated as one hyhat move. This degrees of open and closed is only a problem if it is flagging your ear. I would like to get a grasp of the big picture on how to manipulate these assignments, but it sounds like THAT is the only reason I need to do this. I am assuming what you just told me to do is how you did it? Import the split tracks and then manually assign them to the SoCal kit as you described above. It doesn't really sound like YOU are the one needing help with this. LOL I will admit that you have a better handle on Logic Pro than I do. That's a good thing though.
There is a way to make hyperlinks work from comments Neil. You may have noticed your link announcing the new page was not a hyperlink. If you know how to put html around the links they will work. I will demo that soon. That one is not too important.
The mix that is at the top of the project page sounds pretty damned good. Almost like you know what you are doing or something. 👂
I have inserted a new screen capture into the page here just above the comments. It's a capture of the kick drum opened in the editor. Just to the left on the editor you see a list of the parts of the drum kit. If you click those drum part names you will hear that part. So this is labeled kick so when it plays you can hear if it is making the correct sound. If it is not you find the sound it is supposed to be, select the whole track's midi data and drag it to the right sound by name. So we make the name of the track match the name in that column with parts of a drum kit. If you can get that whole track selected you can drag and drop, or you can select all and tranpose. Drag and drop sounds easiest. We are describing transpose.
I found a track that needs to be fixed immediately Neil. I am going to insert some text above the screen capture, and I will make a note of what I am finding, and I will do some screen captures to demonstrate. We are working with the same MIDI and the same SoCal drum kit, so my findings should match yours. The track I am refering to is the first midi track. It's labled Open Hyhat C#2. And the available drum sounds are way above that on the keyboard. So I will make a text list of my findings. So indeed there are silent tracks in the split MIDI drum track. Now that you've helped me find my tools, I can move these so they make sound and send you the saved logic project file. We will see how much difference it makes to add these in. You are not hearing them the way it is now.
I have inserted 4 new screenshots into the page. If you double click on a midi track it should open the editor for that track. Like in the top picture. The 3 screen shots below that are numbered 1, 2 and 3.
pic 1 = the track labled "kick drum D3", opened in the editor. You see the red arrows show there a kick drum sound there at D3 so we don't need to change that.
pic 2 = the track labled "open hyhat c#2", opened in the editor. We see right away there is no drum sound for that shown (the red arrows). It will be silent. The red arrow above that shows where it would need to be to sound an open hyhat. The top arrow is the name of the track. So you see the track will need to be transposed quite a bit. I count 2 octave and 6 semitonesfrom start to finish.
pic 3 = how it looks AFTER I transposed it up to where it should be. We made the name of the drum sound match the name of the track. I save it this way and will continue working on this.
I need to find the keyboard command for transpose up and down 1. I found the function on the menu and it works. It shows me the keystrokes on the menu but I don't know whatkeys it represents.
Sorted. I just highlight all notes on a note (just "select all" in the separated midi track) and physically slide them up or down. The midi drums sound fine as is, so it will be interesting to hear how the acoustic kit sounds in comparison. I've muted one kick hit at 19:3:4, but otherwise no changes that I haven't already mentioned. Things seem to be going well. Now we just need to see if Joe wants to adjust any vocal bits, then we can get back to you for the acoustic kit version. Icing on the cake will be pedal steel (and maybe strings) after we are all done. Cheers, N
I kikked the kicks in the extra cymbals track. Yep just waiting on my maple shell pearl snare, and I will def be up for an acoustic take. I could also render the ezdrummer hats to use in your mix. I am thinking we should render the SoCal kit into audio stems. That seems to me to be easier to mix.
Well Neil, I have a better way. Better because it is easy to slide what is selected sideways instead of just up adn down. Once you have it all selected (cmd A) use the key command "option A and the up and down arrows". That moved it just like dragging but no chance of things slipping sideways. Works very well. Took me a matter of minutes to fix this once I found that. I posted a saved logic file in the files area. Have a look.
Seems like the ezdrummer has more hat options (varying degress we spoke of). I could easily render from the original, just the hats. I feel like I could represent the hats much better if they were audio instead of MIDI.
I am good with the guide vocal as stands until you 2 are satisfied with your tracks and then I can play with the acoustic guitar and vocals to see what fits and what doesn't. The piano adds a new dimension for me as well but I don't expect any major reworking in my parts.
So you finally have one of my Logic saved project files. We will do this when I finally do kit session here. I don't feel like it's in vain to go learn key features of Logic. I am already getting around on it much better. I like keyboard commands. E for editor, and X for mixer on and off. This transpose keyboard command is just what I needed.
Joe, you may not care about this but the functions Neil and I are discussing are pretty standard, and should work on cubase. Almost all DAWs have the piano roll that is in the screen capture. It's another word for midi editor. If the drum tracks are labeled you should be able to match the kit of your choice. Some of the drums are in different places. We just matched up the different places.
I am curious how different my drum asignments (where everything has sound) changes what you've been hearing Neil. It is hard to mix final mix on drums using midi. Mostly because you are using the velocity function on one kit which has a singular volume. I am always afraid if I edit the velocity to mix the kit I change the performance. If you just render the kit into audio stems, you should have a lot more control of mixing the audio. That is how I would do it. If you render to audio and leave the velocity in tact you preserve the performance. So I would not put a lot of stock in mixing using MIDI. I recommend rendering it all to audio and mix like you would an acoustic kit as it were. I have had better luck and control doing it that way.
I am also thinking the ezdrummer is a guide. There is a lot of snare buzzes I don't think are even necessary. Just the framework is what I will be after. It won't be exact but it will be close.
Mostly thinking to HOME IN on Neil's bass as I rehearse. I moved junk off my kit. Getting closer. I always have to stop and research how to use the tools to expedite things. I know how to get the producer kits now.
Logic is probably more indepth that what I have been working with, but they all give pretty much the same tools. Joe what version of Cubase do you use?
I am on here with my iMAC right now. I uploaded that file for Neil from here. I am hoping tomorrow I actually do some kit. We'll see. Everyday life keeps me hopping sometimes. It's my goal anyhow.
My buddy Adam G has a high end mesh head trigger kit. I have come to realize those types of kits have a lot more hat to offer. If we use my acoustic kit, the hats won't be a problem. Nothing like the REAL THING!
Fred, I am using Cubase Pro 11, but "using" is a very generous term for what I do on there. The midi drums is a territory I have never really gotten into - when I started in Cubase a friend recommended Spectrasonics STYLUS RMX which uses midi samples but whole kit stereo samples, not seperate parts. And to be honest, I have enough trouble holding guitar and vocal duties together so I am more than happy to leave the complex drum and bass stuff to you guys...please! :)
I have cubase 10.5 here Joe. I have tried many. I like cubase too. I have been a paid customer of Propellerhead Reason for years and only recently started actually using it. They all pretty much do the same thing. When we get time we can get into it a little. Neil and I are working drums out of necessity right now. It is helping the project. We can focus on what the project needs, and down the road we can work on those things. There is plenty to learn, and it is probably best to learn it as you need it. They do all pretty much work the same. I have found it's just a matter of the layout differing. If we stick to the standards, most of this should import into any modern DAW.
I don't seem to be able to do anything with the Drum Assignment Logic File Fred. Opens a folder with 3 other folders, but can't open, can't drag to desktop. Not sure it's necessary, so not a problem a.t.m. maybe. N
Yes it's easy to move up and down using the cmd A (selecte all) and option and up and down arrows. So I need to learn how to send logic project files intact. THAT was part of the reason I sent that. A lot of what we do is part of the learning process. I am almost positive it's better to render to audio for the mix. We need to use the same 2 measures of 3 count on the beginning of the tracks so our work just drops in and lines up. Quite often I will make the start of things on measure 3 or 4 just to give myself room to work, but once it's all lined up we'd have the music start on an agreed upon measure. When doing kit I like to have at least 2 measures of count in so I gan be ready to drum. So we can agree on 2 measure count in for alignment. I am enjoying learning, and Logic has come to life just by learning a few often used keyboard commands.
Fred, Have found a few more "empty" tracks - nearly all of them open hi-hats which I have fixed by shifting them to correct part of the kit. The difference is not obvious, but I definitely sense a fuller, more complete sound.
Yes there were a handful that didn't translate in the drum asignments. But now you have a handle on quickly fixing. If the tracks are name for what they need to sound like it's easy.
In general I'd like to hear the hats a little better, but I rekon that will come onve it's all rendered to audio.
I will be actually playing the SoCal kit when I do the kit session Neil. The assignments will not be a problem for them. I just need to figure out how to send you logic project files intact. I will read up on how to do that.
This comment page is quite lengthy, but if you work from email notification it makes it much easier to manage. Using the POST links in the emails takes you directly to the comment shown in the email and you can reply. I really like having it all on one page like this for looking back. If you know how to test keyword searches it will go through and find your keywords. It is also handy to know how to make the page jusp to the bottom where the message input happens.
Text keyword searches. On windows it is ctrl - f and a little window comes up. You type in a word and it will go to that word through this whole big long page. F3 jumps to the next place it finds the word. Makes it easy to search back and find things.
Look in the files area for a new ZIPPED Logic Project file Neil. This time I used zip to compress it as they tell us to do, so am hoping this worked this time. Let me know how that goes.
Neil if you have the comment page open and you don't want to scroll through the whole page to go to the top of the page, hold the command button down, and hit the up arrow and boom you are at the top. Command held and the down arrow jumps to the bottom of the page.
Joe on windoze it is the HOME and END buttons to do this.
If you are at the top of the comments page and you want to search the text using a keyword on a mac hold cmd and hit F. A tiny window will pop up in the upper right, and you enter a keyword, and it will go to that word in the page. F3 finds the next.
On windows it acts the same except ctrl-f brings that windo up.
You'd want to be at the top of the page before starting the searches so you find them all.
On a mac use the little down arrow on that search window to go to the next place it finds that word. I went to the top of the page, brought up the little text search window and typed in cubase. It went to that word in the comments, and I was able to find the discussion I was having with Joe about cubase. If you remember some of what we talked about you can use those words to go to those comments.
I have a cable I need to reroute. It goes right under the throne. Trip hazard, and ruins cords. Groom myself a little and shower and put the phones on and get to it.
I am sitting at the kit, and setting up. I found how to set the gail of the crashes and the hats to my liking. The crash cymbals sound huge on the SoCal kit. Almost like hitting ride cymbals as crashes. Luckily I am able to tuen them down in my phones. So I turned up the hats and ride and the crashes down a litte. I have tha drum mix you made synced, and the more bass mix (no drums) synced. Now I just need to figure out how to loop sections of playback. It's not obvious just to look at this, and my searches on looping have brought up all kinds of stuff about using loops but nothing about simple playback looping (yet). Not knowing where things are in logic is slowing me down. I am sweating here and I haven't even begun. LOL
Drummers have unique problems that others don't deal with. Sweating and having headphones on quickly runs into hygene problems. It's why I don't usually wear phones. I mix with monitors not phones for this reason. I HAVE to wear phones for this so I shaved and cleaned myself up to help this. So if I can figure out out to set playback looped regions I could probably begin. I actually got up from the kit after 10 minutes of frustrating finds about using loops and nothing about region looping in playback. I am determined to get some kit time in before I do my gym workout. Hope I find this soon. I may have to abandon kit playing for now if I don't figure out looped regions soon. In other daws I've used I can select a region and click the loop icon. I don't even see an loop icon on this (yet).
Found it. I had to customize the controls and turn the "cycling" on. No wonder "looping" didn't find a match. LOL I associate cycling with bikes. LOL I am in "search word hell". Haha! Thank GOD for You Tube videos! They help me when the manual will not.
I am making my way through these setup problems. I got the loop set (cycling). It's working how I am used to now. Next problem. I need to see the outer edged of my snare trigger to do a sidestick. It is doing a rimshot now which is different than a sidestick. Sidestick is used in the verses. I actually had a separate trigger setup for sidestick in other sessions but that was on another trigger kit I sold. I may have to go that route here if I don't find it soon. I am sure it's a setting in the Alesis brain settings. Digging out the manual for that. Ok I am off for more "keyword search hell". It's been hard finding these answers but I don't give up easily.
Maybe I will have to move my gym to tomorrow as this is slow going. Just a lot to this, that's all I can say. Onward and upward!
There have been a LOT of problem solving on this setup. I thought I was going to be able to finally record. Have a look Neil. Why do I not have the option to record on the SoCal track in the screenshot? Problem # 10 to solve 👈 Click this
I THINK I know what I need to do. Having lunch and re-grouping. I will keep you posted. Gym will happen tomorrow I rekon. I will keep at this until all of the problems are solved. I think I am close now. I may have to start from scratch and use a "drummer" template and import the guide audio from there. I didn't do that on this. If I use the DRUMMER template I am hoping the record will be there. It's already after 2 p.m. here and most of the morning spent problem solving. These problems needed to be solved anyhow so good to get them out of the way. Hopefully a one time thing and they will be solved for future sessions. Lunch time.
Ok I figured it out. All I had to do was add another instrument track and set it to SoCal. I've started recording. It's obvious I have some rehearsal to do. I've recorded the intro. I did a take on the verse but didn't keep it. I will do some more rehearsal and maybe some more recording but right now I'd say the rehearsal is needed. I'll send you what I save in a bit. It's not that hard of a beat/performance. I just need to rehearse it. That's what I am about now. Getting my performance up to snuff. I got this stuff out of my way so now I just need to work on that.
I uploaded my first attempt at kit. Sent up a zipped logic project file. See what you think of it. I have some rehearsal in front of me but listen anyhow. I will keep practicing. I am a bit rusty.
You hear my left foot clapping the hyhat as I play the ride. I am sure this will improve as I rehearse. Have a listen.
Right now my attitude is not great having had to navigate and troubleshoot, but I do think the BS is out of the way. I learned a bit today. I'll take a breather and try to do some more. Hoping a change in my attitude will yield better performance. You know how that goes.
All that zipped logic file contained was some midi. I don't know why it would be 40 plus mb in size. I killed the audio guide tracks and saved it. SHould have just been the midi performance I saved. Not supposed to be that big, unless I am missing something here.
Hey Fred, you are putting a massive amount of work in on a big learning curve and i know Neil will feel the same in watching in appreciation and amazement but please don't stress yourself out over it - the song and is plenty able to wait while you get a breather. I think we all know that point where we need to take a break and come back to it fresh!
I had this revamp of my process in mind already Joe. You guys just gave me a reason. I am glad to get behind the kit again, both triggered kit and acoustic. It's just time. I got a handle on things now I hope. All of this stuff is considered setup. If i get it setup right, it's one less excuse I have for not getting things right. It's time for me to spend some time on the kits. It's more problem solving than complaining. Neil seems to be following what I am doing pretty well. He has been a big help. If I say what I am up to, I have seen Neil step in and help me. I am getting results. I sent Neil a short live kit session. I have my work to do now. Rehearsing, and refininng. If the bass is not punctuated it's noticable. I got this.
Have been having a few network problems this morning. We're pretty cruisy about progress Fred. I feel like we are making some big steps at the moment, and am enjoying the results a lot, but some days we run into roadblocks or take unexpected detours :) There's no rush with the songs, the main point is to enjoy ourselves :) Cheers from Oz, N
I kind of enjoy trying to follow some descepline. I do feel like we are communicating. We've seen you sculpt the rhythm section Neil. I'll know when I am following what is needed. There are patterns, I need to get on. I am noticing the dynamic build on the bass and how you want the foot to help push that. Following the bass is my job right now. I need to play it a bit. That's what I'm up to. I take those phones off my head when I am in the DAW. Just to let my ears breathe. Playing drums can get physical. That's a good thing. I have an octapad I can put in the system here and play ride bell. I will tryout the bell on the cymbal pad but I have played having this octapad next to that kit. I can put anything on a pad and play it. Ocapad has a brain of it's own and will feed SoCal.
I answered this (and posted another comment earlier) but they don't seem to be getting through to the comments section. Maybe this will? The Logic file/s didn't open for me - I just ended up with various folders with files, but none of them opened for me. I'm not really bothered though :) I have to admit, I think emails direct work better for me.
Just as I have control of the levels, so do you Neil. Tweak at will to your own liking. You know what I mean about the SoCal crash cymbals being huge? Maybe too big?
Hiya Neil and Joe!
ReplyDeleteGot it 2
ReplyDeleteGood job Neil! This system makes it very easy to look back at things we've talked about. If you upload something just tell us to look in the files area and we can see the new files.
DeleteNeil does Joe have a google account? It is possible he uses that email to login to google. If we get him in here like we are, we will be able to discuss things as a group. I have my iMAC turned on. Going to work on those drums a little.
ReplyDeleteNo, I don't think he has GMail - give me some days to get my head around things so I can talk him through it and I'll see if I can entice him in :)
ReplyDeleteIs there a way I can edit my "Credits" etc?
I sent you instructions in email Neil. Let me know if I need to clarify. It's just getting used to where everything is.
DeleteI have found that working from email notifiaction links it's very easy.
ReplyDeleteAm I here?
ReplyDeleteWelcome Joe!
DeleteLet's try that again
ReplyDeleteI got notified of the above comment.
DeleteAre we rolling?
ReplyDeleteHopefully these are now coming to your inbox. Hope we fixed it.
DeleteOne more time
ReplyDeleteOne more time again
ReplyDeleteOk so we found the notifications in your social tab in gmail. Hoping we got this fixed now.
DeleteJust as well - I am not getting any younger here :)
DeleteLOL 👨🏿🦳
DeleteCheck one
ReplyDeleteSo Neil, Joes is here with us and is all set to you. He's getting notifications from these comments, and has successfully done a few test uploads. You will see his files in the files area, and you can even click them open and hear them. Whe one of us comments here the other two will see it in their gmail. You should try an upload just to see it work.
ReplyDeleteSorry for the typos. I am one who NEEDS to edit after.
ReplyDeleteHi Joe,
ReplyDeleteHave set up a "Darker Side" page as well: https://sites.google.com/view/music-of-neil-porter/in-process/darker-side?authuser=0
Neil, I am MUCH faster with the apps I use on windoze. I put a screen capture in the project page here just above the comments. Can't miss it. So I numbered the arrows for reference. So I opened and empty project, and then opened a session for drummer. It put the SoCal kit on a track (arrow 1 in capture). That much worked. When I imported the split midi file it did import them but it is not assigned to the SoCal kit on track one. They all seem to be assigned to a Steinway piano (arrow 2 in capture). How to I make these tracks trigger the drum kit?
ReplyDeleteYou'll need to do the following for EACH midi track AFTER you import them into Logic:
ReplyDeleteClick Library icon (top left, under red dot)
|
V
Drum Kit
|
V
SoCal (or choose whichever kit that you like)
I had to make the Library visible in the menu, but once I did, I quickly found the SoCal kit and asigned it immediately. Very helpful Neil! We're getting somewhere now. For now I am using the iMAC speakers but I am planning to connect a focusrite interface and Presonus Monitors. Hope I am not too much at a disadvantage with these speakers. I have found the iMAC speakers are pretty damned good, but they are not reference monitors. Getting there. Thanks for the help. We help each other.
DeleteOk I will give that a try Neil. I was able to set the kick track to the drum designer, but I didn't see the SoCal kit available in drum Designer. I was looking for producer kits so I could choose SoCal. I will follow your instructions. I have recorded the SoCal kit with the triggers. This is a little different to asign for an imported midi track. Will give that a try. I saved what I did but I like the SoCal kit too. I do think that kit has crash cymbals that are a little too loud by default. I usually want to lower them in the mix using velocity. Thanks Neil.
ReplyDeleteI rekon the basics are the same in most DAWs. It's just a matter of finding it on the menus. I have some video tutorials and the manuals but I think it's a matter of wording for searches. If I don't get the exact keyword, my search goes to the wrong places.
ReplyDeleteAre you still finding tracks that don't make any noise Neil?
ReplyDeleteHaven't noticed any so far - it all sounds complete to me though.
ReplyDeleteThat's really all that matters. I am thinking about the hyhats. Remember I mentioned that they piece together different degrees of closed and open hyhats? I think they piece it together and it is treated as one hyhat move. This degrees of open and closed is only a problem if it is flagging your ear. I would like to get a grasp of the big picture on how to manipulate these assignments, but it sounds like THAT is the only reason I need to do this. I am assuming what you just told me to do is how you did it? Import the split tracks and then manually assign them to the SoCal kit as you described above. It doesn't really sound like YOU are the one needing help with this. LOL I will admit that you have a better handle on Logic Pro than I do. That's a good thing though.
DeleteThere is a way to make hyperlinks work from comments Neil. You may have noticed your link announcing the new page was not a hyperlink. If you know how to put html around the links they will work. I will demo that soon. That one is not too important.
The mix that is at the top of the project page sounds pretty damned good. Almost like you know what you are doing or something. 👂
We can copy/paste links out of here and they will work. They don't really need to be a hyper link but it is doable.
ReplyDeleteHeading out to the beach - will check all the midi tracks for sound when I get back.
ReplyDeleteQuestion: is it easy to remove uploaded files?
Cheers,
N
It's not hard at all Neil. When you get ready, I will show you how. I will do it here in public so Joe can look in.
ReplyDeleteI have inserted a new screen capture into the page here just above the comments. It's a capture of the kick drum opened in the editor. Just to the left on the editor you see a list of the parts of the drum kit. If you click those drum part names you will hear that part. So this is labeled kick so when it plays you can hear if it is making the correct sound. If it is not you find the sound it is supposed to be, select the whole track's midi data and drag it to the right sound by name. So we make the name of the track match the name in that column with parts of a drum kit. If you can get that whole track selected you can drag and drop, or you can select all and tranpose. Drag and drop sounds easiest. We are describing transpose.
ReplyDeleteI found a track that needs to be fixed immediately Neil. I am going to insert some text above the screen capture, and I will make a note of what I am finding, and I will do some screen captures to demonstrate. We are working with the same MIDI and the same SoCal drum kit, so my findings should match yours. The track I am refering to is the first midi track. It's labled Open Hyhat C#2. And the available drum sounds are way above that on the keyboard. So I will make a text list of my findings. So indeed there are silent tracks in the split MIDI drum track. Now that you've helped me find my tools, I can move these so they make sound and send you the saved logic project file. We will see how much difference it makes to add these in. You are not hearing them the way it is now.
ReplyDeleteI have inserted 4 new screenshots into the page. If you double click on a midi track it should open the editor for that track. Like in the top picture. The 3 screen shots below that are numbered 1, 2 and 3.
ReplyDeletepic 1 = the track labled "kick drum D3", opened in the editor. You see the red arrows show there a kick drum sound there at D3 so we don't need to change that.
pic 2 = the track labled "open hyhat c#2", opened in the editor. We see right away there is no drum sound for that shown (the red arrows). It will be silent. The red arrow above that shows where it would need to be to sound an open hyhat. The top arrow is the name of the track. So you see the track will need to be transposed quite a bit. I count 2 octave and 6 semitonesfrom start to finish.
pic 3 = how it looks AFTER I transposed it up to where it should be. We made the name of the drum sound match the name of the track. I save it this way and will continue working on this.
I need to find the keyboard command for transpose up and down 1. I found the function on the menu and it works. It shows me the keystrokes on the menu but I don't know whatkeys it represents.
ReplyDeleteSorted.
ReplyDeleteI just highlight all notes on a note (just "select all" in the separated midi track) and physically slide them up or down.
The midi drums sound fine as is, so it will be interesting to hear how the acoustic kit sounds in comparison.
I've muted one kick hit at 19:3:4, but otherwise no changes that I haven't already mentioned.
Things seem to be going well.
Now we just need to see if Joe wants to adjust any vocal bits, then we can get back to you for the acoustic kit version. Icing on the cake will be pedal steel (and maybe strings) after we are all done.
Cheers,
N
I kikked the kicks in the extra cymbals track. Yep just waiting on my maple shell pearl snare, and I will def be up for an acoustic take. I could also render the ezdrummer hats to use in your mix. I am thinking we should render the SoCal kit into audio stems. That seems to me to be easier to mix.
Deletekilled
DeleteWell Neil, I have a better way. Better because it is easy to slide what is selected sideways instead of just up adn down. Once you have it all selected (cmd A) use the key command "option A and the up and down arrows". That moved it just like dragging but no chance of things slipping sideways. Works very well. Took me a matter of minutes to fix this once I found that. I posted a saved logic file in the files area. Have a look.
ReplyDeleteSeems like the ezdrummer has more hat options (varying degress we spoke of). I could easily render from the original, just the hats. I feel like I could represent the hats much better if they were audio instead of MIDI.
ReplyDeleteI am good with the guide vocal as stands until you 2 are satisfied with your tracks and then I can play with the acoustic guitar and vocals to see what fits and what doesn't. The piano adds a new dimension for me as well but I don't expect any major reworking in my parts.
ReplyDeleteSo you finally have one of my Logic saved project files. We will do this when I finally do kit session here. I don't feel like it's in vain to go learn key features of Logic. I am already getting around on it much better. I like keyboard commands. E for editor, and X for mixer on and off. This transpose keyboard command is just what I needed.
ReplyDeleteHope my screen capture made all that clear Neil. You probably were already keen on that but now you know for sure what I am talking about.
ReplyDeleteJoe, you may not care about this but the functions Neil and I are discussing are pretty standard, and should work on cubase. Almost all DAWs have the piano roll that is in the screen capture. It's another word for midi editor. If the drum tracks are labeled you should be able to match the kit of your choice. Some of the drums are in different places. We just matched up the different places.
ReplyDeleteI am curious how different my drum asignments (where everything has sound) changes what you've been hearing Neil. It is hard to mix final mix on drums using midi. Mostly because you are using the velocity function on one kit which has a singular volume. I am always afraid if I edit the velocity to mix the kit I change the performance. If you just render the kit into audio stems, you should have a lot more control of mixing the audio. That is how I would do it. If you render to audio and leave the velocity in tact you preserve the performance. So I would not put a lot of stock in mixing using MIDI. I recommend rendering it all to audio and mix like you would an acoustic kit as it were. I have had better luck and control doing it that way.
ReplyDeleteI am also thinking the ezdrummer is a guide. There is a lot of snare buzzes I don't think are even necessary. Just the framework is what I will be after. It won't be exact but it will be close.
ReplyDeleteMostly thinking to HOME IN on Neil's bass as I rehearse. I moved junk off my kit. Getting closer. I always have to stop and research how to use the tools to expedite things. I know how to get the producer kits now.
ReplyDeleteLogic is probably more indepth that what I have been working with, but they all give pretty much the same tools. Joe what version of Cubase do you use?
ReplyDeleteI am on here with my iMAC right now. I uploaded that file for Neil from here. I am hoping tomorrow I actually do some kit. We'll see. Everyday life keeps me hopping sometimes. It's my goal anyhow.
ReplyDeleteMy buddy Adam G has a high end mesh head trigger kit. I have come to realize those types of kits have a lot more hat to offer. If we use my acoustic kit, the hats won't be a problem. Nothing like the REAL THING!
ReplyDeleteWhen you look back through this comment page you see it's all on one page. I have done text searches on long pages and found things.
ReplyDeleteAnd email takes you right to messages to post.
ReplyDeleteFred, I am using Cubase Pro 11, but "using" is a very generous term for what I do on there. The midi drums is a territory I have never really gotten into - when I started in Cubase a friend recommended Spectrasonics STYLUS RMX which uses midi samples but whole kit stereo samples, not seperate parts. And to be honest, I have enough trouble holding guitar and vocal duties together so I am more than happy to leave the complex drum and bass stuff to you guys...please! :)
ReplyDeleteI have cubase 10.5 here Joe. I have tried many. I like cubase too. I have been a paid customer of Propellerhead Reason for years and only recently started actually using it. They all pretty much do the same thing. When we get time we can get into it a little. Neil and I are working drums out of necessity right now. It is helping the project. We can focus on what the project needs, and down the road we can work on those things. There is plenty to learn, and it is probably best to learn it as you need it. They do all pretty much work the same. I have found it's just a matter of the layout differing. If we stick to the standards, most of this should import into any modern DAW.
DeleteI don't seem to be able to do anything with the Drum Assignment Logic File Fred. Opens a folder with 3 other folders, but can't open, can't drag to desktop.
ReplyDeleteNot sure it's necessary, so not a problem a.t.m. maybe.
N
Yes it's easy to move up and down using the cmd A (selecte all) and option and up and down arrows. So I need to learn how to send logic project files intact. THAT was part of the reason I sent that. A lot of what we do is part of the learning process. I am almost positive it's better to render to audio for the mix. We need to use the same 2 measures of 3 count on the beginning of the tracks so our work just drops in and lines up. Quite often I will make the start of things on measure 3 or 4 just to give myself room to work, but once it's all lined up we'd have the music start on an agreed upon measure. When doing kit I like to have at least 2 measures of count in so I gan be ready to drum. So we can agree on 2 measure count in for alignment. I am enjoying learning, and Logic has come to life just by learning a few often used keyboard commands.
DeleteFred,
ReplyDeleteHave found a few more "empty" tracks - nearly all of them open hi-hats which I have fixed by shifting them to correct part of the kit. The difference is not obvious, but I definitely sense a fuller, more complete sound.
Yes there were a handful that didn't translate in the drum asignments. But now you have a handle on quickly fixing. If the tracks are name for what they need to sound like it's easy.
DeleteIn general I'd like to hear the hats a little better, but I rekon that will come onve it's all rendered to audio.
Damn I can't type. I blame it on need for coffee.
DeleteI will be actually playing the SoCal kit when I do the kit session Neil. The assignments will not be a problem for them. I just need to figure out how to send you logic project files intact. I will read up on how to do that.
DeleteThis comment page is quite lengthy, but if you work from email notification it makes it much easier to manage. Using the POST links in the emails takes you directly to the comment shown in the email and you can reply. I really like having it all on one page like this for looking back. If you know how to test keyword searches it will go through and find your keywords. It is also handy to know how to make the page jusp to the bottom where the message input happens.
ReplyDeleteText keyword searches. On windows it is ctrl - f and a little window comes up. You type in a word and it will go to that word through this whole big long page. F3 jumps to the next place it finds the word. Makes it easy to search back and find things.
ReplyDeleteLook in the files area for a new ZIPPED Logic Project file Neil. This time I used zip to compress it as they tell us to do, so am hoping this worked this time. Let me know how that goes.
ReplyDeleteNeil if you have the comment page open and you don't want to scroll through the whole page to go to the top of the page, hold the command button down, and hit the up arrow and boom you are at the top. Command held and the down arrow jumps to the bottom of the page.
ReplyDeleteJoe on windoze it is the HOME and END buttons to do this.
Just the up and down arrows alone moves up and down slowly on both machines.
DeleteIf you are at the top of the comments page and you want to search the text using a keyword on a mac hold cmd and hit F. A tiny window will pop up in the upper right, and you enter a keyword, and it will go to that word in the page. F3 finds the next.
ReplyDeleteOn windows it acts the same except ctrl-f brings that windo up.
You'd want to be at the top of the page before starting the searches so you find them all.
On a mac use the little down arrow on that search window to go to the next place it finds that word. I went to the top of the page, brought up the little text search window and typed in cubase. It went to that word in the comments, and I was able to find the discussion I was having with Joe about cubase. If you remember some of what we talked about you can use those words to go to those comments.
DeleteWe have some company for a bit. Delaying what I had planned in the studio today. Soon hopefully. Babysitting neice and nephew.
ReplyDeleteThis link will take you directly to the new pic I just posted: https://sites.google.com/view/music-of-neil-porter/in-process/after-the-train-has-gone#h.bk5g2gbym7cv 👈
ReplyDeleteI have a cable I need to reroute. It goes right under the throne. Trip hazard, and ruins cords. Groom myself a little and shower and put the phones on and get to it.
ReplyDeleteI am sitting at the kit, and setting up. I found how to set the gail of the crashes and the hats to my liking. The crash cymbals sound huge on the SoCal kit. Almost like hitting ride cymbals as crashes. Luckily I am able to tuen them down in my phones. So I turned up the hats and ride and the crashes down a litte. I have tha drum mix you made synced, and the more bass mix (no drums) synced. Now I just need to figure out how to loop sections of playback. It's not obvious just to look at this, and my searches on looping have brought up all kinds of stuff about using loops but nothing about simple playback looping (yet). Not knowing where things are in logic is slowing me down. I am sweating here and I haven't even begun. LOL
ReplyDeleteDrummers have unique problems that others don't deal with. Sweating and having headphones on quickly runs into hygene problems. It's why I don't usually wear phones. I mix with monitors not phones for this reason. I HAVE to wear phones for this so I shaved and cleaned myself up to help this. So if I can figure out out to set playback looped regions I could probably begin. I actually got up from the kit after 10 minutes of frustrating finds about using loops and nothing about region looping in playback. I am determined to get some kit time in before I do my gym workout. Hope I find this soon. I may have to abandon kit playing for now if I don't figure out looped regions soon. In other daws I've used I can select a region and click the loop icon. I don't even see an loop icon on this (yet).
set the gain of crashes
DeleteWell in this video I found I am supposed to have a loop icon visible. How did that get turned off and haow do I turn it back on?
ReplyDeleteFound it. I had to customize the controls and turn the "cycling" on. No wonder "looping" didn't find a match. LOL I associate cycling with bikes. LOL I am in "search word hell". Haha! Thank GOD for You Tube videos! They help me when the manual will not.
ReplyDeleteOk sitting back down at the kit.
ReplyDeleteI am making my way through these setup problems. I got the loop set (cycling). It's working how I am used to now. Next problem. I need to see the outer edged of my snare trigger to do a sidestick. It is doing a rimshot now which is different than a sidestick. Sidestick is used in the verses. I actually had a separate trigger setup for sidestick in other sessions but that was on another trigger kit I sold. I may have to go that route here if I don't find it soon. I am sure it's a setting in the Alesis brain settings. Digging out the manual for that. Ok I am off for more "keyword search hell". It's been hard finding these answers but I don't give up easily.
ReplyDeleteMaybe I will have to move my gym to tomorrow as this is slow going. Just a lot to this, that's all I can say. Onward and upward!
There have been a LOT of problem solving on this setup. I thought I was going to be able to finally record. Have a look Neil. Why do I not have the option to record on the SoCal track in the screenshot? Problem # 10 to solve 👈 Click this
ReplyDeleteI THINK I know what I need to do. Having lunch and re-grouping. I will keep you posted. Gym will happen tomorrow I rekon. I will keep at this until all of the problems are solved. I think I am close now. I may have to start from scratch and use a "drummer" template and import the guide audio from there. I didn't do that on this. If I use the DRUMMER template I am hoping the record will be there. It's already after 2 p.m. here and most of the morning spent problem solving. These problems needed to be solved anyhow so good to get them out of the way. Hopefully a one time thing and they will be solved for future sessions. Lunch time.
ReplyDeleteOk I figured it out. All I had to do was add another instrument track and set it to SoCal. I've started recording. It's obvious I have some rehearsal to do. I've recorded the intro. I did a take on the verse but didn't keep it. I will do some more rehearsal and maybe some more recording but right now I'd say the rehearsal is needed. I'll send you what I save in a bit. It's not that hard of a beat/performance. I just need to rehearse it. That's what I am about now. Getting my performance up to snuff. I got this stuff out of my way so now I just need to work on that.
ReplyDeleteI uploaded my first attempt at kit. Sent up a zipped logic project file. See what you think of it. I have some rehearsal in front of me but listen anyhow. I will keep practicing. I am a bit rusty.
ReplyDeleteYou hear my left foot clapping the hyhat as I play the ride. I am sure this will improve as I rehearse. Have a listen.
ReplyDeleteRight now my attitude is not great having had to navigate and troubleshoot, but I do think the BS is out of the way. I learned a bit today. I'll take a breather and try to do some more. Hoping a change in my attitude will yield better performance. You know how that goes.
All that zipped logic file contained was some midi. I don't know why it would be 40 plus mb in size. I killed the audio guide tracks and saved it. SHould have just been the midi performance I saved. Not supposed to be that big, unless I am missing something here.
ReplyDeleteGonna try to improve my attitude and do some more.
ReplyDeleteHey Fred, you are putting a massive amount of work in on a big learning curve and i know Neil will feel the same in watching in appreciation and amazement but please don't stress yourself out over it - the song and is plenty able to wait while you get a breather. I think we all know that point where we need to take a break and come back to it fresh!
ReplyDeleteI had this revamp of my process in mind already Joe. You guys just gave me a reason. I am glad to get behind the kit again, both triggered kit and acoustic. It's just time. I got a handle on things now I hope. All of this stuff is considered setup. If i get it setup right, it's one less excuse I have for not getting things right. It's time for me to spend some time on the kits. It's more problem solving than complaining. Neil seems to be following what I am doing pretty well. He has been a big help. If I say what I am up to, I have seen Neil step in and help me. I am getting results. I sent Neil a short live kit session. I have my work to do now. Rehearsing, and refininng. If the bass is not punctuated it's noticable. I got this.
DeleteIt's 8.30am here and we are just getting started but you've already put in at least a full day's work!
ReplyDeleteHave been having a few network problems this morning.
ReplyDeleteWe're pretty cruisy about progress Fred. I feel like we are making some big steps at the moment, and am enjoying the results a lot, but some days we run into roadblocks or take unexpected detours :)
There's no rush with the songs, the main point is to enjoy ourselves :)
Cheers from Oz,
N
I kind of enjoy trying to follow some descepline. I do feel like we are communicating. We've seen you sculpt the rhythm section Neil. I'll know when I am following what is needed. There are patterns, I need to get on. I am noticing the dynamic build on the bass and how you want the foot to help push that. Following the bass is my job right now. I need to play it a bit. That's what I'm up to. I take those phones off my head when I am in the DAW. Just to let my ears breathe. Playing drums can get physical. That's a good thing. I have an octapad I can put in the system here and play ride bell.
ReplyDeleteI will tryout the bell on the cymbal pad but I have played having this octapad next to that kit. I can put anything on a pad and play it. Ocapad has a brain of it's own and will feed SoCal.
I am meaning to think out loud more than anything. If I am stressed it is mild. Just studio problem solving.
ReplyDeleteThe reason the 3 of us worked out the drum arrangement is so I would have this all laid out for me. I'm on it.
ReplyDeleteI take it the logic files open for you Neil?
ReplyDeleteI answered this (and posted another comment earlier) but they don't seem to be getting through to the comments section. Maybe this will?
DeleteThe Logic file/s didn't open for me - I just ended up with various folders with files, but none of them opened for me. I'm not really bothered though
:) I have to admit, I think emails direct work better for me.
If I think out loud, it gives both of you guys a chance to jump in and help me streamline this. I am making progress.
ReplyDeleteThe session is there waiting for me to jump on and play. Neil should have a short section of my kit playing.
ReplyDeleteJust as I have control of the levels, so do you Neil. Tweak at will to your own liking. You know what I mean about the SoCal crash cymbals being huge? Maybe too big?
ReplyDeleteSo I have the crashes dialed back a bit. I don't know if that translated in the project file?
ReplyDeleteI like my ride on top, but set it how you like.
ReplyDeleteI am about rehearsing foot patterns for a bit. Talk soon.
ReplyDeleteSo I will make some audio for Joe to listen in on too. Didn't meant to exclude you Joe. I am sure Neil will post some new audio soon too.
ReplyDeleteAll good Fred - I'm out with my dogs in the rain for a bit so I'll check in when I get back. Hmm, sounds like a song - out with my dogs in the rain :)
ReplyDeleteDogs 'bout drove me nuts here today. Puppy and 16 yr old cranky dog. Lots of barking. Have a good walk.
Delete